Posted by Dr Fro 2:32 PM

I've had two realizations in Omaha 8 lately. Like most Omaha 8 advice, it comes from a perspective of comparison to Holdem strategy.

First of all, when you get in a raising war in Holdem, you ask yourself, "does he have the nuts?" When you get in a raising war in Omaha 8, you should assume he has the nuts. What you should ask is "even though we both have the nuts, which one of us has the better re-draw?" When two people flop the same nut straight, but only guy has a draw to the low or to the flush, that guy is in an incredible situation - one better than having a dominating hand in Holdem. Even the dominating hand can get sucked out on, but in the situation we are talking about here, one player has a worst case scenario on the flop of splitting the pot. He could win 3/4 of the pot. Best case scenario is felting your opponent. And, unlike in Holdem, it is easier to get your unwitting opponent to hand you all of his chips. Advice: nuts is schutz unless you have draws to boot.

Here is the second realization. I have been asked how to play flopped top two pair in Omaha 8 compared to Holdem, particularly when your opponent represents strength. In Holdem, you play them pretty strong, particularly against a weak field that overplays top pair top kicker. In Omaha 8, you need to ask the following:

1- Do you have a re-draw to a higher high hand?

2- Do you have draw to the low?

3- Based on the board, do you put your opponent on a set?

I first answer question #3. If the board is 25J, you have to put your heavy betting opponent on a set. Against a set (let's assume a best case scenario of 222), you basically have 2 outs twice. You are in bad shape. Thus, I do not believe you can call. The best hand you might have is J5A3 with a flush draw which gives you 16 outs twice to the low and 9 outs twice to the high. It is tough math to figure out the odds of scooping vs splitting vs losing, but my amateur math puts this at roughly 23% chance to scoop, 48% chance to split and a 29% chance to lose the whole pot. That is negative EV and it is the best case scenario! If you put him on something less than a set, you may be in good shape, but honestly, what Omaha player is going to be betting it up with top pair? Really!

That's my 2 cents anyway.

2 Comment(s):

Posted by  Dr Fro, at 2:26 PM, March 16, 2008  

Yes, I simplified the math by ignoring the gutshot draw to the wheel and the chance of hitting the flush or boat just to get re-drawn out on by quads or something, but the effects of these remote events would not change the conclusion.

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Posted by  Johnnymac, at 8:54 AM, March 17, 2008  

"but honestly, what Omaha player is going to be betting it up with top pair? "


The answer to that question is, "plenty." Although there are more people willing to play Omaha these days and it's (much) easier to get a game up, most people are still much worse at it than they are at Holdem. Even very good Holdem players still play Omaha very poorly - raising with nut low hands, raising preflop with starting hands like A289, ramming and jamming flopped middle straights (and, for that matter, two pair), and generally just throwing their money into the pot if they think there is ANY chance of getting something back at the end.

A common rule of thumb these days is that most holdem players have read a couple of books and are better than they used to be assumed to be, but it's also quite prudent to expect that most Omaha players have never even seen an Omaha book and are generally worse than you want to give them credit for.

I know this is a tangent, but unless you're playing against a bunch of players who you know to be very experienced and skilled at Omaha, it might not be exactly right to assume they are playing with the nuts on any particular hand. (In fact, my personal experience says most normal Omaha players slow down when they make a nut hand, but that's even more of a tangent...)

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